Viewer Mail #2: The Ageless Richard Alpert

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Today's Viewer Mail post is for Ricki, my next door neighbor, giver of beer, gracious provider of backyard runs for my dog and inquisitive Dharma Blog reader. So Maggie and I shall answer the question that haunts her consistently. And that question is...

Is Richard human? Why doesn't he age? This is driving me nuts!

Shit.

Way to pick the hardest question ever, neighbor. But Maggie and I are ready to tackle it. In fact, we spent a whole hour on iChat discussing this very issue. The following is a transcript of that conversation - complete with a Sunday School lesson and a trip to ancient Egypt - which we hope will shed some light on the issue. Please forgive our occasional bouts of ridiculousness throughout the conversation.

Maggie
Aloha.

Charlie
Let's flesh out this Walk Like a Richard theory.

Maggie
Great idea. I think it might suck. But - at the same time - it was sort of a light bulb moment. Here goes:

I have spent a lot of time during the last week thinking about the Lost/Egypt connection. Like many people, I quickly made the assumption after the statue reveal (in combination with the hieroglyphics we’ve seen all over the place on the island…and Richard’s eyeliner) last week that Egyptians played a role (at some point) in either the establishment or preservation of the island. However, what if it is the other way around? Instead of “Is Richard Egyptian (does he look like an Egyptian)?” should we be asking, "Do Egyptians look like Richard?"

Charlie
So you're implying that Richard and the Island are at the heart of civilization? You have also mentioned that since the Island's exit hole is Tunisia, then the Island could've populated civilization as we know it (in Egypt). Am I correct?

Because if I am, then you are awesome. And insane.

Maggie
Ha! Well, think about it...

If our island has always existed…and the powers/qualities that is has have always been there (including the escape portal that leads to Tunisia), what if the early inhabitants (and I’m talking really early…generations and generations ago) of the island departed the island through the portal and populated Africa…and, in turn, all of humanity? At this point, it looks like you can only get a one-way ticket to Tunisia – there has been no proof (or indication) that you can get a return trip to the island. Instead, you have take a submarine/boat/plane through the specific (and ever-changing) time fold in order to return to the island.

But we've seen a lot of other Egyptian references on the show...not just Richard's eyeliner or the statue.

1. Hieroglyphics on the Hatch countdown timer, on the Temple, and down by the donkey wheel.

2. When Locke visited Hurley in Santa Rosa, Hurley was drawing a picture of the Great Sphinx.

3. Paul, Amy's now-dead husband, was wearing an Ankh. In addition to being a word that appears to be missing a vowel, an ankh is hieroglyphic that represents "life."

4. Oh, also there were hieroglyphs on Ben's secret door.

Charlie
Maggie. Dare I say, you are talking like an Egyptian.

Let me put it another way for you, my dear constant: Say the Island is indeed the source of civilization. In Christianity, it is believed that the Garden of Eden was the source of all mankind. And think back to Season 1 when Jack took everyone to live in the caves. What did they find there? Two mysterious skeletons, that were mega-old. And what did they call them? Adam. And. Eve. That would be a not-so-subtle tip of the hat to your theory.

Additionally...
The skeletons were holding one black stone and one white stone. This black/white symbolism has pervaded the show since day 1.

Are the writers implying that these originators of humanity struggled with the same kind of ambiguous moral delineations that our Oceanic survivors are struggling with to this day?

And/or, are they making a commentary on the nature of good and evil? Classically, Eve is painted as the original sinner. Maybe by planting black and white stones on the skeletons, they're telling us that both Adam and Eve were good and bad - that the concept of sin and evil is not so, well, black and white.

Maggie
I think you're absolutely onto something here.

Charlie
This is why we're friends.

Maggie
And constants.

Black and white are used to represent contrast in the show - from the title page of the show, to the Dharma logos, to the chess/backgammon pieces, to the very stones you're talking about.
A little bit of research this morning taught me that Black and White also had very serious symbolism in Ancient Egypt.

Charlie
Do go on.

Maggie
Black symbolized fertility, new life, and resurrection. White was the color of purity, sacredness, cleanliness, and simplicity.
The one stickler here with the Adam/Eve, white/black, sin/purity theory will be the clothing that Adam and Eve were wearing.
As you'll recall, there were still remnants of their clothes when they were found by Jack back in House of the Rising Sun.

Charlie
Yes, yes indeed. But would those caves have acted as a partial entombment, helping to preserve them?

Maggie
Definitely the caves helped preserve the clothes - but Jack guesstimated that they died between 40 - 50 years ago, based on the deterioration.
This brings us back to the question of time passing on the island -- if Jack's time window is correct, these people died between 1954 and 1964.
This is interesting to note since we have time traveled to 1954 already (in Jughead). So, make your own theories on that one, but it could be that we met Adam and Eve during that episode...

But let's go back to the question of Richard -- ageless boy wonder or dead-as-a-doornail?

Charlie
Ageless boy wonder! Ageless boy wonder!

Maggie
Let the record state that I don't think he is dead either. Remember when Ben said "You still remember birthdays, don't you, Richard?"

Okay - there are a few options about where he came from. My Egyptian theory of the day says he is from...well...I guess he is formed from dust. And is the original of all originals. If this is true...we are the descendants of one hot Adam.

Charlie
Classy.

Maggie
But seriously. What do you think about the Trinity idea? 3 in 1 -- Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
Father = Jacob.
Son = Richard.
Holy Spirit = Smokey?

Charlie
Hmm. I'd buy 2 of 3. But I think Locke is the Son.

Maggie
Okay so Holy Spirit = Jacob, Son = Locke, Father = Richard?

Charlie
No, Father = Jacob. Son = Locke. Holy Spirit = Smokey.
I mean just look at Locke’s entire journey. If heaven/paradise is the Island (and according to Locke, it's something that amounts to that), then, ahem, "God (Jacob) so loved the world (or feared its demise) that he gave his one and only son (Locke), that whoever believes in him (Richard, Jack, more) shall not perish but have eternal life."

Eternal life! In this case, Richard being a believer in the power of this entire ritualistic Island society may be the cause of his agelessness.

But Locke's journey to the mainland mirrored Jesus' on-earth time (if my Sunday school lessons aren't too long forgotten). He came, he tried to convince, but didn't do so by being pushy (I mean, weren't you struck by how passive he seemed about things when people didn't want to believe him) and he had to sacrifice himself in order to atone for the sins (disbelief) of other people.

Maggie
Whoah, Charlie. Put down your Bible.

Charlie
I actually Googled "John 3:16.” There's a first time for everything.

Maggie
Yeah, I could definitely go for that theory. Absolutely. So based on that, Richard is the faithful believer.

Charlie
You’re the Sunday School teacher, who would that make Richard?
Paul? Peter? Phil?
Was there a Phil?

Maggie
There was an apostle named Philip. Maybe he went by Phil. IDK.

But if John is Jesus...and the island is heaven...and the U.S. mainland (and then some) is "earth"... Richard would be, kinda, St. Peter.

Charlie
Ahh, the gatekeeper?

Maggie
Well, eventually he became the gatekeeper. He started as a fisherman. Who was one of the first to follow Jesus. Or, believe enough to follow Jesus. He's like the super disciple. If the disciples were a club, he was the President.

Charlie
Did he have a gavel? Was there a pancake feed?
Sorry.

Maggie
Yeah, there was a pancake feed. But instead of serving pancakes, they served fish.

Charlie
Gotcha.

Maggie
After the resurrection, Peter was the first person Jesus appeared to. I mean, I think Richard is Peter in your analogy. The only weird part is the three denials thing. You know - where Peter denied Jesus three time before his death.

Actually - HOLD UP

HOLD UP

Okay. There WERE three denials!
(1) When Locke was born
(2) When he visited 5 year old Locke
(3) Teenager Locke!
Ahhh!
All three times, Richard did not believe that Locke was the chosen one!

Charlie
Oh MAN! Good one!

Maggie
OMG!

Charlie
OMJacob!

Maggie
OMHeck!

Charlie
Man, gooooood one. You just nailed that.

Maggie
Thanks.

Charlie
Okay, so biblically analogous character relationships aside, why can't Richard age?

Maggie
Okay, so after Peter died, he was made a Saint. And his heavenly job (no recession up there at the time) was to guard the gate. So, in a sense, he has been frozen in time -- ageless, if you will -- with the task of guarding the gates of heaven. I mean - it isn't a great analogy.

Charlie
It works for me.

Maggie
But, in the sense that his (Richard's) role is to protect heaven (i.e. the island), it definitely could work.

Charlie
So is LOST's end game a gigantic biblical analogy? Or is it a reinterpretation of the bible story? OR. Are they pitching it as the literal explanation of Christianity? That Locke really is Jesus, etc.

Maggie
What if the Temple was built over Richard's burial place, a la St. Peter's Basillica in Rome?

Charlie
Could be. I think the places, structures and locations all have a lot that need examining. Funny, we've gone from Richard the Egyptian demigod to Richard the St. Peter in like 45 minutes.

Maggie
Yeah, I'm not surprised. We're intense like that. Well, I think that the Christianity aspect of it is undeniable. I don't think it is the only explanation, though.

But whoa: in addition to Locke, there were 12 main survivors of the crash.
Hello, 12 disciples.
When
is
your
pancake
feed
?

Charlie
12? Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Sayid, Hurley, Charlie, Sun, Jin. That's 8.

Maggie
Michael, Walt, Boone, Shannon.

Charlie
Boone, Shannon, Claire, Michael.

Maggie
Damn!

Charlie
Damn!

Maggie
Okay, well. I thought wrong.

Charlie
Is Michael Judas? We could probably do a whole separate post comparing each survivor to a disciple.

Maggie
But seriously - both explicit and implicit Christianity references are freaking everywhere.

Charlie
And Nikki and Paolo are thieves in the temple!

So let's wrap up here:
Richard Alpert. Ageless. Explanations:
1. He is the overseer of the creation and propagation of civilization, dating back to ancient Egypt.
2. He is St. Peter, a gatekeeper to the Island paradise, with strong ties to Christ (Locke), God (Jacob), Adam and Eve (Adam and Eve) and The Holy Spirit (Smokey).
3. Botox.

Maggie
Right.
And the things-we-know-are-out-there-but-we-have-no-idea:
1. Aaron
2. Walt
I mean, we know they are important. But we don't know why.

Charlie
Indeed. Good talk!

Maggie
Great!



(And....scene).

That's what we think. How about you? You buying the whole Richard-as-St. Peter thing? What about the Egyptian angle? Or do you have an entirely different (and less whacked out) theory about Richard? Ricki, I hope this helps answer your question, or at least gives you some things to think about. If not, I suppose I do owe you and the hubby a beer.

Until tomorrow!

Namaste.
Charlie

20 Snarky Comments:

Anonymous said...

Wow. Those are some pretty wacked out theories. Maybe that's why I like them. Two things.

1. If Jacob is the Father, Locke the Son, and Smokey the Holy Ghost, who is Christian? He doesn't seem to fit anywhere in the Biblical analogy that I can think of.

2. Richard Alpert isn't really wearing eyeliner. Nestor Carbonell just has really thick eyelashes. I had this debate with so many friends after The Dark Knight came out. Here's a link to check out: http://www.premiumhollywood.com/2009/01/28/once-more-for-the-record-nestor-carbonell-does-not-wear-eye-make-up/
Therefore, I think you can discount any Richard-is-Egyptian-and-his-eyeliner-is-a-clue theories.

Charlie said...

Batman,
I think Christian is some sort of intermediary who escorts people to the afterlife. In fact, he might be just like Abbadon, who "gets people where they need to be." Is Christian his antithesis?

And good info on Nestor Carbonell - maybe his naturally-Mascara'd eyes led him to be typecast in this pseudo-Egyptian role? It's a stretch. I'll let Maggie defend that, she's the one on the massive Egypt kick right now.

Also - I learned you work with my brother-in-law! Your identity is secret no more.

Anonymous said...

Blast! My cover is blown! Ahh well, it was bound to happen sooner or later. Good thing I don't need to have a secret identity.

maggie said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
maggie said...

Alright, Batman. I have an answer for your "who is Christian in the analogy question."

Contrary to popular belief, I am not Catholic. However, I can google "Catholicism" with the best of 'em. I've found that PYSCHOPOMPS (the entities that escort newly-deceased souls to the afterlife...seriously, it is a word!!) in Catholicism is St. Michael.

Huh? So there are three spheres of angels, right? Think of them like Varsity (the 1st sphere), JV (the 2nd sphere), and Reserves (the 3rd sphere). (Sidenote: Can you tell I'm currently hooked on the high school state basketball tournament?)

Okay, Michael is on the Reserves squad, but I actually think there are representatives from each angelic sphere on Lost.

First sphere/Varsity - These angels are guardians of God's throne (the island), keeping everything/everyone safe from harm.
Bible Examples: Cherubim, Seraphim
Lost Example: Smokey!!

Second sphere/JV - These are the heavenly Governors who are in charge of dictating direction and purpose for heaven (the island).
Bible Examples: Dominions, Powers
Lost Example: Jacob!!

Third sphere/Reserves - These are the heavenly messengers and soldiers who go around and give messages to people on Earth.
Bible Examples: Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Uriel
Lost Example: Christian!! (And what about Richard???)


WOW! Bet you didn't think I was going to go all angelic on you, did ya, Batman?

All together now: PSYCHOPOMP!!!

Anonymous said...

Wait, I thought you said that Jacob was the Father and Smokey was the Ghost, but now they're psycopomps? I have to admit, you've totally lost (really no pun intended) me on this one.

Anonymous said...

OMJacob!

thanks for the fantastic post! i honestly never could have imagined that my question would prompt THAT discussion (obviously, i underestimate you two) but i'm pretty excited about what came out of it. i was totally into the egyptian richard theory until batman's post, but maybe charlie is right...maybe they cast him for that reason (or maybe not). either way, i still think there's some connection between egypt and the island -- we just have to figure out what it is. i think maggie's on the right track, though. has anyone gone back and tried to decipher the hieroglyphics on the countdown timer or the temple?

i am also absolutely loving the biblical references and i think you're onto something with the father, son, holy spirit, peter thing. there are definitely a lot of references to the whole eternal life/resurrection. i see the relationships between jacob=father, locke=son, richard=peter, but i'm struggling with smokey=holy spirit...is it just that smokey's some kind of ghost?

here's another question...how does richard get back to the island when he leaves? post-dharma we could assume he uses the submarine (since that's how he got juliet there) but what about pre-dharma -- like when he went to visit locke as a baby & as a 5-year-old??? AND does he leave through the same means (the donkey wheel) as we've seen people leave thus far. if so, how does he get to the wheel? how long has the wheel been exposed?

i love living next door to "charlie the dharma blogger!" oh, and how weird is it that i just rediscovered the michael jackson song "black or white" (my iPod was on shuffle during my run) yesterday???....i think it's probably a sign from the creators of lost.

Anonymous said...

Wow, this is fantastic. I am definitely digging the black/white theme. That has stuck with me ever since Locke and Walt played backgammon, there was one Locke line that resonated powerfully with me and first tipped me off to Locke's badassness. Of course I have now forgotten what it was and I don't have season 1 with me but would love to know what it was (winkwink).

It will be interesting to see just how much religion plays a part in the show. I seem to remember a scene (I think a dream that Charlie had) where Claire and others were on the beach, and Claire had a halo. Which reminds me, when are we going to see her again?

The father-son-holy spirit thing is making me dizzy.

Charlie said...

Looking for this?

LOCKE: Backgammon is the oldest game in the world. Archeologists found sets when they excavated the ruins of ancient Mesopotamia. Five thousand years old. That's older than Jesus Christ.

WALT: Did they have dice and stuff?

LOCKE: [nods] Mhhm. But theirs weren't made of plastic. Their dice were made of bones

WALT: Cool.

LOCKE: Two players. Two sides. One is light … one is dark—Walt. Do you want to know a secret?

(this is where Locke proceeds to tell Walt about the wheelchair stuff, which we find out later). Hope this helps.

Anonymous said...

YES...thanks.

"Two players. Two sides. One side is light. The other side is dark."

Another random theory I've had is that each charater will have a mirrored version of themselves. I got more interested in this when the "constant" stuff happened.

Each person could have a "light" (good) side, and a dark side.

I've tried to match them up...

Jack -- Sawyer
Juliet -- Kate
Locke -- Ben
Desmond -- Faraday

I can't put too many of them together, but it's something that has stuck with me since that scene. I don't know how to fit it into the big picture. How does time travel affect this? Are they the same person in alternate realities? I don't know.

Anonymous said...

Also....the "oldest game in the world" is the battle between light (good) and dark (evil)...?

Also also,

Jacob -- Smokey

Anonymous said...

Also also also,

Sorry for being so scatterbrained.

But what was the instance in which Richard visited teenage Locke?

Charlie said...

High school Locke was getting pushed into lockers (Locke into lockers! That's why they're called that!) and his teacher suggested he go to a "Science Camp" to be a big nerd. The camp was at Mittleos Bioscience. Richard didn't actually visit. His teacher said:

GELLERT: I know you're probably upset right now, but I do have some exciting news for you. I got a call from Portland recently. There's a company up there doing some very exciting things in chemistry and new technologies. They're called Mittelos Laboratories. I spoke with a Dr. Alpert. He's very interested in finding young, bright minds to enter into these new fields of science. They want you to go to their camp this summer.


Richard didn't actually visit, but, ya know.

Anonymous said...

this is a little off track, but i read on nypost.com that some other blog thinks that the 4-toed statue is taweret -- a deity of protection in pregnancy and childbirth, goddess of motherhood (according to wikipedia).

apparently, she is usually depicted as pregnant, which is maybe why we only saw the statue from the back. wikipedia also told me that the major part of her is hippopotamus with arms and legs of a lioness and the back of a crocodile....and guess how many toes a lion has...FOUR!!!

also notable, she was the wife of apep, the original god of evil.

Ben said...

I loved the format of this post!

Anonymous said...

Totally off subject (sorry but if I don't write it down, I'll lose the train of thought) but question/something that's been nagging me:

Why were only the 815ers and the rest of the Freighter Folk the ones time jumping when the donkey wheel got jacked? Richard and the rest of the Others didn't seem to be skipping through time. Also if you say it's because they are "originals" to the island and immune there are still those 815ers who were kidnapped (the kiddos, the tailies who were taken the first night and what's-her-name the flight attendant who Locke saw on his first day as the new leader). Why weren't they time O815 buddies?

AND what is up with all those O815ers who were kidnapped. Are they just redshirts who don't die but we're supposed to forget about them? They were "special" for some reason . . . will we know why?

The Glamour Machine said...

Thank you, thank you for allowing us to (at least virtually) listen in on a Maggie/Charlie conversation about the whys and wherefores of the Lostiverse! I've been enjoying your blog for a while now and have been impressed with primarily, your recall ability, but also that you are on the money so many times!

As a deeply right-brained individual I find the logic behind the time-travel and the paradoxes that will inevitably follow (selves running into selves, etc) pretty much mind boggling. The idea of the light/dark versions of the same person is intriguing. However, the one wrench I would throw into that is that the examples that have been lined up don't quite wash. Who is the dark and who is the light? Sawyer made his pre-island living as a ruthless con-artist, Jack has numerous moral slipups including his relationships with patients (Sarah) or relatives of patients (Gabriella). Kate blew up her step dad, Juliet seems to lack a moral compass all together, except when it will ultimately serve her to be nice for a minute. I find her to be one of the most Machievellian characters on the show.

A quick note on the St. Michael psychopomp analogy (from a former Catholic). As happens much of the time in Catholicism, there are numerous and sometimes conflicting roles for St. Michael. I always understood him to be the chief archangel/warrior who defended heaven against the devil and the other fallen angels. Turns out he holds many other roles including possibly being the angel who said "whoa, whoa, whoa, Abraham, we didn't mean REALLY kill Isaac!" He is also (swear - found it on Catholic.org) the patron saint of grocers, mariners, paratroopers, police and sickness. If the psychopomp theory is correct tho, only those about to die can actually see his face. Which makes the Christian as psychopomp theory very interesting indeed.

Finally, Maggie, please tell Charlie you want to use his publicist. I spoke to Gregg and heard all the funny stories about Charlie being recognized randomly as "DharmaBlog Charlie" and the unmasking of Batman. Cheers!

Anonymous said...

i had the same holy trinity idea but mine was more... island, god. smokey,holy ghost. jacob, jesus. because jacob is trying to have the people on the island follow the will of the island. and smokey kinda seems to search out the souls of the survivors. and all of the power seems to come from the island itself.

Anonymous said...

I think that you guys are very well onto something here with all this stuff typing into religion and egypt and what not... (minus -unless it was someones comment- the statue part. in the season finale, there was no lion-like, body part, or crocadile-like back, or hippo-like body... if anything , maybe i crocadile-like face? ... but it did have that necklace!)
Plus, think about the story of Jacob and Esau... Jacob (who was actually the deceiver!..hmm interesting) took Esau's inheritance and esau vowed to get it back by killing him. And the inheritance made it so that Esau had to listen to Jacob... well, in LOST the mystery man from the beginning vowed to kill Jacob, but still listened to him as if he had to, just like Jacob and Esau. ALSO.. i found this interesting...
ONE OF JACOB's Children was named BENJAMIN. Not entirely sure if that has to do with anything, but yeah.

Aimée Jodoin said...

ok. John 3:16
their second flight was 316
the guy's name is john
"for god (jacob) so loved the world (island) he gave his only son (john) and whoever believes in him will have eternal life (richard)"
plus adam and eve and the twelve disciples and the denying him 3 times thing
John 3:16
can't get any more obvious than that.
and the Egyptian thing actually makes sense. It's like a creationist theory or something. fate vs free will : god vs science
they're the same thing.
Jacob is God and all he wants is to protect the island, and there's all those hieroglyphics, so I think the island came way way way before Egypt.
John 3:16
Hey, maybe God really does exist?