Ben Replaces Ben

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It looks like my recap needs to be supplemented with a little theory today... with so many thoughts and debates raging in the comment section. After reading through them, processing them, and combining them with the thoughts of one of my favorite LOST bloggers (DarkUFO’s Vozzek 69), I have the following brief theory to posit.

First, I’m going to presuppose a new rule: if you travel back in time, you can not interact with your past self. That would create a paradox. Maybe John Locke knew this when he refused to go encounter his hatch-door-pounding self earlier this season.

So with that rule in mind, here's my theory.

Vozzek69 believes that Ben wanted Sayid to go back to 1977 and shoot him. Ben somehow knows that the Island has stopped in 1977 (Ms. Hawking told him?), and that his 13-year-old self is back there, living out his life. So Ben recruits Sayid to shoot a bunch of guys, to tap into that “killer instinct” and remind Sayid, time and time again, that he is and will always be a killer. Then he abandons him, disappoints him, and makes Sayid hate him. Then he recruits Sayid back to California with the “your friends are in danger” threat. He's purposely toying with Sayid and creating in him a hatred for Ben. A very necessary hatred.

He needs Sayid to get on that flight and go back to 1977. Why? So Sayid can kill 13-year-old Ben. That way, 40-year-old Ben (who arrived via Ajira 316) could reenter the timeline without triggering that paradox I mentioned earlier.

Why? It might have to do with The Incident. The Incident (according to Lostpedia) was an electromagnetic anomaly that apparently caused a catastrophic event that resulted in the DHARMA Initiative establishing the Swan station's protocol. The Incident was first mentioned by Dr. Marvin Candle in the Swan Orientation film. ("Orientation"). “The Incident” is also the rumored title of this season’s finale.

Raise your hand if you see where this is leading...

When 40-year-old Ben reenters the timeline, he can do whatever he needs to do to fit his master plan. Whether that means avoiding The Incident, changing The Incident, or changing the circumstances around The Incident. Or maybe he needs to go back to right some other, non-Incident-related wrong. But to do this he needs his 13-year-old self out of the picture to avoid the paradox, hence his manipulation of Sayid.

So now Ben, unconscious on the Alcatraz Island, can go to the main Island and reenter the timeline. This maybe – MAYBE – also explains why Sun and Frank didn’t get beamed out. If they’re on the Island as children, they can’t just walk back into 1977 and interact with their past selves. It’s plausible – Sun’s father is the uber-connected Mr. Paik and Frank obviously has some special abilities and knowledge of electro-magnetic storms.

Even if this theory doesn’t explain Sun and Frank, it might very well explain what happened with Ben during He's Our You: he goaded Sayid into traveling to 1977 to kill 13-year-old Ben, so that 40-year-old Ben could reenter the timeline at 1977 and fix whatever he needs to fix in order to carry out his master plan, whatever the hell that is.

11 Snarky Comments:

The Glamour Machine said...

I'm incredibly impressed with all the theories in the last thread. As I've mentioned before, I'm a deeply right brained individual. I've never thought in a straight line so I think that's one of the reasons that I love this show so much. True, reality-based logic is useless here but you have to employ a certain degree to keep from going utterly insane. GREAT thread of comments!

Here's something that doesn't seem to have been brought up yet. When creepy young Ben comes to the cell to rescue Sayid, he asks Ben what happened with his glasses and Ben explains that his father beat him up over the sammich. He says "I really hated him." Past tense. Does he say that because he's already put the Dharma Initiative behind him, or because his father is already dead?

Someone mentioned in the comments (and perhaps it was just the way it was worded) that Sayid had something to do with the van a-fire. It occurred to me when I saw the van that Ben's jerk Rico-father was in it (sick burn!), but then I remembered 40-something Ben kills him on the day of the Purge. I think Ben was definitely the one who created the distraction.

As far as Ben's alive/dead status is concerned, how is the paradox not employed if he is killed as a 13 year old? Don't we have to accept the idea of a parallel existence if he eventually becomes an adult? And if he does, how does he? I really believe that the role that Widmore plays in all of this is deeply significant. I view him as quite the puppet master and as much as Ben tries to manipulate information, time and other people's lives, he's just trying to be as good at it as Widmore is.

I promise I'm not digging here, but I so enjoy this blog and I'm always somewhat hesitant to post because my theories and ideas are no where near as deeply thought out as others. I'm just too big of a big mouth to keep it to myself! Cheers!

Anonymous said...

I don't believe that young Ben says "I really hated him." I think he actually said "I really hate it here" as in with the Dharma Initiative and Uncle Rico.

Charlie, I really like that theory. A lot. That being said, I don't think that's where the show is going. I kind of hope I'm wrong about that though...

Nice work!

-Jeff H.

el_kin said...

Stop with the theories, check the next link if you want to know what is actually going to happen!

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SPOILER ALERT!

This is a screen capture of a yet to be aired episode, so you are warned: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/Scrt8qh4_KI/AAAAAAAAuFk/CI0OJk3Tn_g/s1600-h/ben.jpg

Source: DARK UFO Spoilers

---------------

Bye!

Anonymous said...

this blog has officially become too smart for me.

for what it's worth...i think 13-year-old ben is dead but not gone. actually, i think i want him to be dead but i'm sort of waiting for him not to be. i just don't know how things could work knowing what we know about the future. i do, however, think he caused the bus fire...i think that was little ben's first time plotting.

side question: i'm going to be in europe for 3 weeks pretty soon...does anyone know if there's a site that posts the lost episode right away after it airs?

Anonymous said...

Ricki - abc.com posts the episodes the next day. That's probably about as early as you can see them.

As for any Ben theories, here's some new information, although it's a bit spoilery, so be warned:


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I checked my tv schedule for next week's Lost, and the description for "Whatever Happened, Happened" said that Jack refuses to save Ben's life, so Kate takes measures into her own hands. So I guess Ben is still alive, at least for a little while...

el_kin said...

@ricki: You won't be able to watch the episodes @ ABC.com because that's from US IPs only. I'm from Argentina I download each episode one or two hours after they are aired from hosting sites like Megaupload or Rapìdshare or by Bittorrent. That's the fastest way to get the episodes.

Nathan A. said...

One thing from the Killer Instinct post. Maybe you knew this but the truth serum is LSD. The drops on a sugar cube was a common way of ingesting LSD, and before it became a recreational drug, the military/CIA types experimented with LSD as a, surprise, truth serum. Then they found out it had some, ah, side effects and discontinued the experimentation.

Secondly, I really hope your theory in the Ben Replaces Ben post is bogus. It's just too much, too complicated, and too much of a stretch for me. If old Ben needed young Ben dead, I have to believe Ben could have easily come up with a much easier way to manipulate that into happening than the mulit-year, multi-layer, multi-multiple process you describe.

This has always been my big fear of the Lost end game. Even the fantasy stuff has been "believable." The explanations we've been given so far haven't been too much of a stretch. I first began to doubt during "316," one of my least favorite episodes. I hated Mrs. Hawking's theory of "We'll put you on this plane that passes near the island and maybe something will happen." For the first time, I found myself rolling my eyes at the Lost writers, saying "Really? That's what you're giving us? *Maybe* something will happen?"

There are so many mysteries we haven't touched on in a while. I hope they plan to resolve them all. I really hope we don't get the end and ask "So what was that smoke monster?" and the answer is "Nobody knows. It's just one of the island's unexplainable mysteries." I really hope the writers don't cop out like that.

atf said...

RE: Ben replaces Ben. I don't believe the island stopped in 1977, Sawyer Juliet etal happened to land in that time frame. After the Sun,Frank,Christian scene, didn't the screen say " thirty years earlier"? So Ben can come to the island , and it's not going to be 1977. To use Faraday's record analogy, 1977 is groove say, 20, 2007/8 is groove 35.

Re: Nathan's comment on Ajira crash. It was a long time until we found out Desmond not entering the numbers caused the Oceanic crash. Maybe we will find out some similar action caused the Ajira crash.

Re: 1977 Oceanic people beginning to wonder about future, as referenced in the preview. Won't the Oceanics start to compare notes and realize the problems started when the island was moved and stopped when Locke went down the well? Which leads me back to my comment at Namaste. The Oceanics need to get back to the present, and Faraday is the key. Maybe their leaving causes the Incident?

Nathan A. said...

Re: atf
Yes, I'm sure there was some reason 316 went down, and I'm not saying I need to know what that reason is now. I wasn't complaining about why it went down, I was complaining about Mrs. Hawking's reasoning for putting them on the plane, which seemed to be "Maybe we'll get lucky. If not, enjoy your time in Guam."

Anonymous said...

Going back to Charlie's supplementary theory of "paradoxes happen when you co-exist with yourself," what about Miles?

In our crazy, messed up, theory driven world, Miles is the son of Dr. Marvin Candle and is lady-friend. However, Miles is also Mr. Security in Dharmaville. We haven't seen "baby Miles" in quite some time, so maybe he is no longer with us, but it's something to watch for if we're pursuing this theory.

-- Mapes

bret welstead said...

RE: Ben Replaces Ben
I like this theory! I think it fits with Ben's character: he's so evil he would find a way to kill his 13-year-old self to accomplish his goals.

I think you might be on to something. Looking forward to tonight's episode! It'll be awesome.

atf, I love the idea that the Incident is involved in the Oceanics getting back to the present. Great theory!

RE: Other mysteries
1. What about weird Walt? Was it ever revealed how or why he mysteriously appeared to people on the island?

2. What about the whispering Others in early episodes? What caused the whispering, and why don't we hear them any more, or do we and I just don't remember?

3. When will we see Jacob/Christian and Claire again? What's the significance of the cabin?

4. Why does Richard Alpert never age?

5. Whatever happened to Rose, Bernard, and the rest of the Oceanic survivors who we haven't seen since the island first started time-shifting?